News has been grim in the theater sector lately, as economic headwinds have forced organizations around the country to reduce programming, lay off staff, pause production or, in some cases, fold entirely. In a conversation with two of his colleagues in the field, one theater leader said out loud what all the headlines seem to imply: “When we think about these models and we say it was broken — it’s not only broken. It was also doomed,” said Kelvin Dinkins Jr., the executive director of American Repertory Theater, on the latest episode of “Stagecraft,” Variety‘s theater podcast.

Listen to this week’s “Stagecraft” podcast below:

But in a roundtable discussion of the challenges facing theaters around the U.S. and across the Atlantic, all three participants — Dinkins Jr. of A.R.T. in Cambridge, Mass.; Lucy Davies, the executive director at the Young Vic in London; and Martin Miller, the incoming executive director at the McCarter Theater in Princeton, N.J. — identified as many reasons for optimism as they did for concern over the state of industry.

They all acknowledged that the difficulties facing theaters are certainly numerous, as rising costs, declining philanthropy and government support, and behavioral changes in the wake of the pandemic all contribute to the sector’s struggles. Davies pointed to a government subsidy for the Young Vic that’s remained at the same level for a decade despite the rapid rise of inflation; Dinkins Jr. highlighted the scarcity of technical workers in the field as many of them transition to screen work or out of the industry entirely; and Miller underscored a shift in priorities at charitable organizations.

“Whatever happened during the pandemic also disrupted a conversation around the importance of the arts ecosystem to the regional landscape in the minds of some funders and also in the minds of the people leading local government,” Miller explained. “We found ourselves having to fight to maintain funding that was committed before the pandemic. It’s as if the momentary absence of the arts in peoples lives and in the community caused people to change what they thought about their priorities on a macro scale.”

Davies agreed. “The onus is on us to restate our essentialness to the cultural and social capital of people’s lives,” she said.

But the news hasn’t been all bad for these three theater executives, with unexpected successes found particularly with shows that highlight theater as a social gathering and as an event. All three related stories of theaters creating buzz (and business) with, for instance, the pub-like atmosphere of “The Wife of Willesden” at A.R.T. or the 24-hour performance of “The Second Woman” at the Young Vic.

“I don’t mean to say that every show needs alcohol, but I do mean to suggest that there is a desire for the social aspect that seems keener now than it ever was,” Miller said. “I think it’s also sharpened the need for differentiation from the at-home, Netflix-y experiences that we can now have in much more variety and from many more providers.”

Dinkins Jr. found reason for hope in the structural changes being prompted by the current challenges. “One of the things that I’m optimistic about is that we’re going to start paying attention,” he said. “We’ll pay attention to our work forces, to the power of collaboration and collective action. Each theater being in its own silo? That might be a thing of the past now. To figure out how to produce sustainably and share resources is something that I’m seeing actively happening at A.R.T. and across the field with our partners.”

Davies identified the current state of the business as not only a time of struggle but also a time of opportunity. “Both in our business models and on our stages, this is the moment when culture is at its best, right?” she said. “Because we’re like a test bed for what the future might be.”

To hear the entire conversation, listen at the link above or download and subscribe to “Stagecraft” on podcast platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and the Broadway Podcast Network. New episodes of “Stagecraft” are released every other week.

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