The Friends creatives are reflecting on their final conversations with Matthew Perry.

On Tuesday’s episode of Today, Marta Kauffman and David Crane, the creators of the hit sitcom, revealed details of their final interactions with the late actor — just two weeks before his death. Marta told host Hoda Kotb:

“It was great. He was happy and chipper. He didn’t seem weighed down by anything. He was in a really good place, which is why this seems so unfair.”

Related: Friends Cast Break Silence On Matthew’s ‘Unfathomable’ Death

She added that she was in “utter shock” when she heard about his unfortunate death, explaining:

“My first impulse was to text him, honestly. And then, deep sadness. So much sadness. It’s hard to grasp, you know, one minute he’s here and happy and then poof. And doing good in the world, really doing good in the world.”

David then responded to an old quote of Matthew’s, where the Fools Rush In actor theorized people would be “shocked” to hear of his passing, “but not surprised.” To that, he said:

“That’s probably true. Given the journey he’d been on, and we were all aware of it, there was always a part that was kind of bracing for something like this. It is still hard to believe because he was such a sort of alive person, that it’s hard to believe that he’s not here.”

So devastating.

Marta added that she always worried for Matthew amid his struggle with addiction, but that when she last spoke to him he appeared to be in a good place:

“He seemed better than I had seen in a while. I was so thrilled to see that. He was emotionally in a good place, he looked good, he quit smoking.”

She also added he was, indeed, “sober” at that point, and that with his death, she “lost a friend.” Watch the full interview (below):

Our hearts are broken for them. The entire Friends crew, both on and off screen, seemed SO close. A true family.

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